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Re: SO(n) and O(n) questions

Subject: Re: SO(n) and O(n) questions
From: James
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 09:43:22 EST
Newsgroups: sci.math
> Jose_Carlos_Santos?= <jcsantos@xxxxxxxx> writes:
> 
> >James wrote:
> >
> >> I am trying to understand more the groups SO(n)
> and O(n) geometrically.
> >> I think I have a good understanding of them
> algebraically.
> >> 
> >> Well, my first question is : What does the word
> "rotation" mean in R^n?
> >
> >Taken from:
> >
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotation_group
> >
> >"By definition, a rotation about the origin is a
> linear transformation
> >that preserves the length of vectors, and also
> preserves the
> >orientation, or handedness, of space."
> ...
> >> Then, why does SO(n) give all rotations in R^n?
> >
> >Be cause, *by definition* the rotations in R^n are
> the elements of
> >SO(n).
> 
> That isn't really a very satisfactory answer.  It
> certainly raises
> the question, *why* is that a good definition?  And,
> in fact, I think
> the answer to that question is, it's *NOT* a good
> definition.  Yes,
> it characterizes the elements of SO(n), as would a
> good definition;
> but it doesn't relate them in an essential way to the
> concept of 
> *rotating*, a process that happens *in time*.  That
> is: up to the
> "and also preserves" clause, the definition is
> defining the "rigid"
> part of "rigid motion", but it's ignoring the
> "motion" part; and
> when that clause comes along, it *happens* to catch
> exactly the 
> "rigid motions" that can be achieved *within the
> ambient space*,
> but the fact that it does catch them and only them is
> not immediately 
> obvious.
> 
> Here's another approach, which I greatly favor.
>  Define an orthogonal
> transformation of R^n (with its usual inner product)
> to be a linear
> transformation that preserves the length of each
> vector.  If A is
> an orthogonal transformation, a 2-dimensional
> subspace F of R^n is a
> "rotation plane" for A if F is A-invariant (i.e.,
> F=A(F)) and the
> restriction A|F is a rotation in the usual sense.
>  The following
> theorem can be proved in various ways.  
> 
> THEOREM.  Let A be an orthogonal transformation of
> R^n. If n = 2k+1 
> then R^n is the orthogonal direct sum of k rotation
> planes for A and 
> one A-invariant line L.  If n = 2k+2 then R^n is the
> orthogonal direct 
> sum of k rotation planes for A and one A-invariant
> plane P. []
> 
> (For a generic A these direct summands are unique.)
> 
> Now we can describe SO(n) and its non-trivial coset
> in O(n) as follows.
> The orthogonal transformation A belongs to SO(n)
> (resp., to O(n)-SO(n))
> if and only if the restriction of A to L or P, as the
> case may be, is
> in SO(1) (= {I}) or SO(2), as the case may be.  In
> particular (actually,
> equivalently), a special orthogonal transformation is
> the composition
> of k (if n=2k+1) or k+1 (if n=k+2) *ordinary
> rotations* in pairwise
> orthogonal 2-planes (extended by the identity on the
> orthocomplements);
> these ordinary rotations pairwise commute.  Even more
> in particular
> (yet, again, equivalently), a special orthogonal
> transformation *belongs
> to a 1-parameter subgroup* of O(n): that is, the
> standard frame (of
> columns of the identity matrix, in order) can be
> moved *continuously*
> and *rigidly* to frame of columns of A (in order).
>  That, I claim,
> captures the intended meaning of "rotation" and
> justifies the Wikipedian
> _fiat_.
> 
> James, check your gmail account.
> 
> Lee Rudolph
> 

Dear Lee,

I apologize, but the e-mail address that I have in my profile is incorrect, 
mainly because I am wary of posting my e-mail address for everyone to see.  
But, assuming that not many will read this specific post, could you please 
redirect the e-mail that you sent to : greenthorn@xxxxxxxxx  ?

Thank you very much for your response, and it mostly makes sense.  I have a few 
questions : 

1) I read a theorem that was slightly different than the theorem that you 
quoted.  The theorem I read said that if A is in SO(n) where n = 2k + 1, then 
R^n is the orthogonal direct sum of m rotation planes for A and 
p A-invariant lines L, where p was not necessarily 1.  But you say that p = 1.  
I saw the analagous theorem for n = 2k + 2, but I didn't see that there was 
only one A-invariant plane.  Where can I read the proof of this theorem that 
you quote?

2) It's unclear to me how you distinguished SO(n) from O(n) - SO(n).  The 
second sentence of your last paragraph says "The orthogonal transformation A 
belongs to SO(n)
(resp., to O(n)-SO(n))", but then you never write "(resp., O(n) - SO(n))" 
again.  

Well, I would like to say this : From your theorem, let's say n = 2k + 1.  Then 
if A is in O(n), then I'd like to say that with respect to some basis of R^n, A 
is a block diagonal matrix, where one of the blocks is a 1 x 1 block consisting 
of 1 or -1, and the rest of the blocks are 2 x 2 rotation matrix blocks (i.e. 
cos(t_i) sin(t_i) -sin(t_i) cos(t_i) in row format).  So it seems to me that to 
determine whether the matrix is in SO(n) or O(n), it only depends on the 1 or 
-1.  If the 1 x 1 block is a 1, then A is in SO(n).  Otherwise, it's in O(n).  
The -1 corresponds to a reflection in one coordinate axis, which is orientation 
reversing.  The other 2 x 2 blocks correspond to rotations in the respective 
planes.  

So if n = 2k + 1, then I can say that with respect to some basis, an element A 
in O(n) - SO(n) is given by one reflection and 2k rotations in planes.  An 
element in SO(n) is just given by 2k rotations in planes(since the 1 entry 
fixes the last line).

Am I right?  I may have a couple more questions as well that I would hope to 
ask you.

Thank you so much for your time,

James

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