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Re: A modest proposal (was Calculus XOR Probability)

Subject: Re: A modest proposal was Calculus XOR Probability
From: Virgil
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:06:08 -0600
Newsgroups: sci.math
Han de Bruijn a crit :
> Virgil wrote:
> 
>> In article <MPG.1e9dd8e096dfe76398abee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
>>  Tony Orlow <aeo6@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Han's original point is that calculus is very precise and works, 
>>> whereas the case where you have a uniform probability distribution 
>>> over an infinite set of possibilities is not well handled by the 
>>> classical notion that all individual probabilities sum to 1, because 
>>> the individual probabilities are considered equal to zero. It is the 
>>> opinion of both of us that this can be resolved, among other ways, 
by 
>>> assigning infinitesimal nonzero probabilities to each possibility, 
>>> leaving intact the notion that the sum of the individual 
>>> probabilities sums to 1. I am not sure why this is roundly rejected. 
>>> Can you address that?
>>
>> Because there is no model of the reals, either standard or 
>> nonstandard, in which the sum of countably many equal values can 
equal 1.
> 
> You can repeat this a thousand times, but Tony and I don't get it. In my
> not so humble opinion, you must also reject then the  integral(0,1) dx ,
> because it is derived from the Riemann sum n.1/n , which is exactly the
> same as summing up (n) probabilities with 1/n chance for each. dx = 1/n.
> Now take the limit for n->oo and you're done. What's the problem? (Well,
> I _can_ understand that mainstream mathematics can't drop the whole wide
> world of calculus because of this little issue)
> 
> Han de Bruijn

Then HdB clearly does not understand the definition of the Reimann 
integral or the properties of the field of real numbers in which it is 
defined.

The Reimann integeral exists if one can show that if the limit of the 
set of  upper Darboux sums and the set of lower Darboux sums for a fixed 
function and fixed closed real interval converge to a common limit as 
the size of the maximum partiion decrease towards zero, and then the 
limit is the integral.

There is nothing is probability theory that says anything like that 
limit process applied to finite spaces has to carry over in any way to  
any infinite space.
>

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