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Mike Wright <news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:12pecmq22ie8d38@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> benlizro@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > I've suddenly become aware that in my English "donkey" and "monkey"
> > seem to have a geminate /k/. At least, "donkey" is not an exact rhyme
> > with "honky" or "shonky", and "monkey" is not an exact rhyme with
> > "funky" or "flunky". And that's what the phonetic difference seems to
> > be.
> > Should I worry?
>
> Yes, 'cause you talk funny. (And what's "shonky"?)
It's a common Austral. and N.Z. informal expression
meaning "of dubious integrity or legallity; unreliable,
unsound" as in "shonky lawyer". :-)
It could be a contraction of sh(oddy) + (w)onky.
pjk
> > It reminds me of the fact I think I mentioned here a few years ago,
> > that I have geminate /t/ in "thirteen" and "fourteen". I doubt if the
> > two cases are related, except insofar as they show how phonemic
> > differences in the shape of common words can persist for years
> > unnoticed.
>
> I have that one, so it's perfectly normal. (By definition.)
>
> Actually, what I have is a strong syllable boundary before "-teen", with
> what seems to be an unreleased stop (with a kind of simultaneous glottal
> stop) at the end of the first syllable, even with "fifteen" and "sixteen".
>
> In the case of /'sikstijn/, it's the /k/ that's unreleased, and I have
> trouble deciding whether the syllable break really comes between the /s/
> and /t/, or maybe between the /k/ and /s/. It's very smooth at normal
> speed, and when I emphasize a break at either place, it seems okay.
>
> The second syllable of "thirteen", "fourteen", etc. seems to have more
> stress than the second syllable of "thirty", "forty", etc, with the
> vowel being longer, too.
>
> Even the quality of the /t/ is different. The one in "-ty" is that
> flapped t/d thing, while the one in "-teen" is more clearly [t]--and the
> final stop of the preceding syllable doesn't have that
> unreleased/glottal quality.
>
> Is all this difference in syllable boundaries caused by the final /-n/
> of the "-teens"? Or is it because "teen" has become an identifiable
> standalone word in English? Or something else?
>
> > Of course geminates are common in English when two of the same
> > consonant come together at a morpheme boundary, as in "hot-tub" or
> > "sackcloth". But I don't see any such explanation for these cases. I
> > don't even have my pronouncing dictionaries here at the moment, so I
> > don't know whether these pronunciations are recognized variants.
> > Anybody know?
>
> Maybe it has something to do with them being living critters? Try
> saying, "Look, Baby. See the cute little honky? Oh, and look at that
> lovely flunky over by the fence!" Does that change how you say them?
>
> --
> Mike Wright
> http://www.raccoonbend.com
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