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Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment

Subject: Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment
From: "George Dishman"
Date: 1 Mar 2006 02:06:21 -0800
Newsgroups: sci.astro, sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics
jgreenfield@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> George Dishman wrote:
> > jgreenfield@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > > George Dishman wrote:
> > > > jgreenfield@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > ...
> > > > > Well here the clocks (stop watches) can be running all the time, and
> > > > > the observers can STILL be in the pub, as the clocks make notes which
> > > > > are frozen in time as events  unfold.
> > > >
> > > > Right, so the clocks are noting the times of the
> > > > events, that is why we call them "observers"
> > > > rather than the chap who is down the pub. If you
> > > > now understand that terminology, you'll follow the
> > > > conversation better.
> > >
> > > So you understand that the "WHEN" the records are analysed/looked at,
> > > has no bearing on the events.
> >
> > Of course not, but as you said the clocks note the
> > times when the hits occurred and those records are
> > then 'frozen'. It is those recorded times that are
> > analysed to determine the rate at which the bullets
> > hit the target.
> >
> > > Now take the target, which was a piece of wood, and by the depth of
> > > penetration
> > > of the bullets, can you tell WHICH were from a gun fired whilst in
> > > motion ref the target, and which from a stationary position???
> >
> > In our example, the rifleman was either standing still
> > all the time or standing still when firing but changing
> > his location between shots. The rifleman was stationary
> > in BOTH cases. Consequently, the penetration is identical
> > and reflects only the muzzle velocity so NO, you cannot
> > tell whether the rifleman moved between shots from the
> > penetration alone.
> >
> > When you analyse the times recorded by the clock
> > though, you find the rate at which the bullets hit the
> > target differs and you can tell that the rifleman moved
> > from that information. You need to stop and think why
> > that is so when the individual bullet energies are
> > unchanged.
>
> Definitive part of the discussion:
> The blue light IS changed energetically.

No Jim, the topic is what causes the Doppler
effect. Let me repeat the scenario:

> > In our example, the rifleman was either standing still
> > all the time or standing still when firing but changing
> > his location between shots. The rifleman was stationary
> > in BOTH cases. Consequently, the penetration is identical
> > and reflects only the muzzle velocity ...

> Thus can we analyse that the riflemen were in motion at instant of
> firing,
> or not.
> Deeper penetration (:-))   indicates more energy

But the penetration was the same in both cases. Do
try to follow the conversation.


> indicates higher
> bullet v
> Bluer light                        indicates more energy    indicates
> higher photon v
>
> >  I've explained it repeatedly but you need
> > to make an effort to understand instead of just evading
> > the point or this conversation will never move on.
>
> I'd just as soon remain here in the real world, ...

Then continue to address the example we were
discussing instead of drifting off to another subject.

> PS: This global warming is getting serious! A New Zealand brewery
> is closing due to a lack of water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have a hosepipe ban which has been in force
for nearly a year, reservoir levels are at 10% at the
end of winter when they should be overflowing, it
is the worst drought for over a century and our local
water company is now running a small scale
de-salination plant taking water from the English
Channel which it hopes to scale up in a year or two.
In the meantime, we may be on stand-pipes during
the summer despite the serious floods we had a few 
years ago.

George


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