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## Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment

 Subject: Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment Henri Wilson Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:27:29 GMT sci.astro, sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics
 ```On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:38:45 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen" <[email protected]/* */> wrote: >Henri Wilson wrote: >> On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:28:08 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen" >> <[email protected]/* */> wrote: >> >> >>>Henri Wilson wrote: >>> >>>>On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:42:29 +0100, "Paul B. Andersen" >>>><[email protected]/* */> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>In a frame rotating with the angular velocity w (a vector) >>>>>we have the following pseudo forces acting on a body with mass m >>>>>which is moving with the velocity u (a vector) in the rotating frame: >>>>> >>>>>The centrifugal force: >>>>> F = m* (w X (w X r)) where r is the radius vector. >>>>> The magnitude of this force will be m*w^2*|r|, and >>>>> its direction will always be radially outwards. >>>>> Expressed with the speed v = |w|*|r| : F = m*v^2/|r| >>>> >>>> >>>>Paul, that is centripetal force. (you omitted the minus sign somewhere) >>>> >>>>In the rotating frame, w = 0. >>> >>>I am obviously talking to an idiot. >> >> >> w is the rotation of the R frame in the nonR frame as measured in the NonR >> frame. >> >> The R frame has no rotation in itself. > >>>> >>>>>The Coriolis force: >>>>> F = 2*m*(w X u) >>>>> >>>>> Note that the direction of this force always is >>>>> in the plane of rotation, and is perpendicular to >>>>> the velocity u. When u is tangential as in our case, >>>>> the direction will be radial. >>>> >>>> >>>>But in the case of a rotating sphere, such as Earth, it is NOT always in >>>>that >>>>plane. >>>>You calculation applies to the force due to change in angular momentum in >>>>the >>>>NonR frame. >>>>Coriolis is the imaginary equivalent in the R frame (where w is again zero). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>This NG is a sci group. >>>>>When you discuss in this group, you better use the normal >>>>>accepted definitions of centrifugal and Coriolis, >>>>>don't invent your own. >>>> >>>> >>>>Paul, in the R frame, w = 0. Do you disagree with that. >>> >>>You are an idiot! >>>"In a frame rotating with the angular velocity w (a vector).." >> >> >> ....w as measured in the NonR frame, the angular velocity is zero (in ITSELF, >> the R frame). > >OK, Henri. >Please explain what wisdom you tried to convey with >your very intelligent remarks above. > >Please state which pseudo forces are acting on a body >with mass m moving with the velocity u in a frame rotating >with the angular velocity w (a vector). > >My answers, which you claim to be wrong, are: >The centrifugal force: > F = m* (w X (w X r)) where r is the radius vector. > The magnitude of this force will be m*w^2*|r|, and > its direction will always be radially outwards. >The Coriolis force: > F = 2*m*(w X u) > The direction of this force is always in the plane > of rotation, and is perpendicular to the velocity u. No, you are now not wrong. I never said your figures were wrong, just your lack of understanding. You have accepted they are 'pseudo forces'. You obviously use 'psuedo' so that you wont have to admit that I was right by telling you they were 'imaginary'...same thing really. > >Please state the correct answers. > >Centrifugal force = ? (magnitude and direction) that is equal and opposite to centripetal force in the non-rotating frame. >Coriolis force = ? (magnitude and direction) I will not dispute your equations. > >Paul HW. www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm ```
 Current Thread Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, (continued) Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Henri Wilson Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Jerry Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Henri Wilson Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Jerry Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Henri Wilson Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Paul B. Andersen Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Henri Wilson Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Paul B. Andersen Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Henri Wilson Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Paul B. Andersen Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment, Henri Wilson <=