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Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment

Subject: Re: Ballistic Theory and the Sagnac Experiment
From: "George Dishman"
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:16:53 -0000
Newsgroups: sci.astro, sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics
"Paul B. Andersen" <[email protected]> wrote in message 
news:[email protected]

<snip detailed analysis>

> Note also that:
> m*(c+v)^2/r = m*c^2/r + 2*m*c*v/r + m*v^2/r

My back-of-envelope went like this.
Henry can include an arbitrary constant
for the 'coefficient of friction' and
time in contact (for multiple discrete
reflections) so omitting m and r for the

 (c+v)^2 = c^2 + 2*c*v + v^2

For v << c that simplifies to c(c+2v)
(though the validity of that might be
questionable when the total speed
approaches zero).

Including an arbitrary constant k for
the 'coefficient of friction' and
factors ommitted, if initially the
speed is c+v then

 delta_v = -k*(c+2v)

> Of course the centripetal forces are different.
> But not much.
> Let us assume that there is a friction slowing
> you down, and that the slowing during one revolution
> is proportional to the centripetal force, we can write:
> Slowing when going with the rotation:
> delta_vf = k*1000.20001 N
> Slowing when going in the opposite direction:
> delta_vb = k*999.80001 N
> Now we know that to explain the Sagnac in an
> I-FOG, the difference between the two speeds
> must be in the order of 2v.

Paul, if the mean speed of a beam is c and
it starts at c+v it must obviously finish
at c-v. Doesn't that mean the delta needs
to be 2v for each beam and 4v for the pair?

If so, the factor k above obviously needs to
be 1. The beam that starts at c+v finishes
at (c+v)-(c+2v) = -v while the other ends at
(c-v)-(c-2v) = +v.

> thus, in our analogy:
> delta_vf - delta_vb = k*0.4 N = 2v = 0.002 m/s
> k = 0.005 m/Ns
> delta_vf = 5.001 m/s
> delta_vb = 4.999 m/s
> See?
> For the difference to be big enough, you would
> have to slow down to half the speed.
> In an I-FOG with a much smaller v/c ratio
> it would be even worse.
> The very idea is idiotic beyond belief.

I thought he was pulling my leg at
first, it turned out he was serious.

>>>>>>I have shown that to be wrong.
>>>>>You have shown nothing whatsoever. Post the results
>>>>>of your experiment. If you do manage to prove it wrong
>>>>>then you have shown ballistic theory to be wrong.
>>>>The light beams DO NOT experience the same 'centrifugal' forces in both
>>>>directions. Right or wrong, George?
> Wrong.
> The centrifugal forces do not depend on velocity
> (neither speed nor direction), and it is tiny.
> It is however correct that the centripetal forces
> are very slightly different.
> To explain the Sagnac, the light would have to slow
> down to a fraction of it original speed in an I-FOG.
> It doesn't.
> Face it, Henri.
> The Sagnac falsifies the ballistic theory.
> No way out.

I did warn him several times but he never
even attempted the calculation. There's a
big difference between his handwaving and
a scientific explanation.


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