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Re: Ivar Bardson diplomas of 1374 and 1400 - theory silverpalted coconut

Subject: Re: Ivar Bardson diplomas of 1374 and 1400 - theory silverpalted coconut vessel
From: "t(nospam)kavanagh" <"tkavanag"@(nospam)indiana.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:50:41 -0400
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology, soc.history.medieval
Eric Stevens wrote:
> 
> On 11 Jun 2006 16:58:21 -0700, "Tom McDonald" <kiltmac@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> >IE J wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >> Summery Comment. 

Summary

> >> What does this has to do with archaeology, some might ask?
> >> Need I remind you that Ivar Bardson in 1364 among the tithes collected in
> >> the dioceses under Gardar left the Papal representant

representative

> >> a silverplated coconut
> >> vessel. That one was brought to Rome. It's my theory that the one in 
> >> Iceland
> >> might have been gained/bought/confiscated by King Hakon from the cargo 
> >> which
> >> Sigurd Kolbein's son bought and which King Hakon confiscated. It's known
> >> from other sources, to be discussed later, that King Hakon gave the
> >> Icelandic Bishop 

a

> >>valuable gift later

that

> >> same year.
> >
> >You have never related this to archaeology. You haven't yet on this
> >thread. There is no reason to think you will do so in the future.
> >
> >How is something that is presumably still in Rome, which came from a
> >man in Greenland who is not supposed to have dug it up from an
> >archaeological context, archaeologically related?
> 
> Now we are getting to the nub of the argument. An artifact is not
> archaeological unless it's been dug up. What's more, even then it
> might not be archaeological unless its been dug up under appropriate
> circumstances.

I have tried to stay out of this argument. But ...

I write as one who has taught, and is teaching, university level 
anthropological archaeology. (Yes, I know, that is an "argument 
from authority; I just happen to have that authority. And a PhD.)

Eric has one point right: an artifact is not archaeological 
unless it has been dug up. A book, in-and-of-itself, if it 
has been on the shelves since it was written, is not an 
archaeological artifact. It may be historical, bibliographic,
ethnographic, etc., etc., artifact, but it is not archaeological.

However, such a book may contribute to archaeological knowledge. 
For example, in 1978, as a graduate student, I was hired to do 
an archaeological survey of an 1806 house and plot owned by George 
Washington University and which it was planning to move. It was 
the first house built on the site. The survey was legally mandated.

One of the first sources I consulted was a set of fire insurance maps
from the 1920s which showed extant outbuildings, party walls, wells, 
and cisterns. Those maps were not themselves archaeological artifacts, 
but they aided archaeological excavations and archaeological 
understanding of the site.

Similarly, the Norse Sagas themselves are not archaeological 
artifacts; the Dead Sea Scrolls are. But the *content* of 
the Sagas may help (or hinder) archaeology.

To me, the problem with Mrs. J's recent posts is that she has failed 
to link their content to any archaeological context. She has not 
stated how they might help with the understanding of any particular 
archaeological site or complex. She just throws them at us, and 
then refuses to provide specifics.

> >If, as you have
> >speculated, it was made in the New World, what evidence for that do you
> >have? None, so far.
> 
> At least that comment has merit.

But even then, that artifact is not archaeological.
 
> >Why don't you hash this out on the medieval ng, and bring this here
> >when you have some archaeological content? You will feel better for it.
> >And so will the rest of us.

Seconded.

tk

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