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Re: Answer to Agamemnon Re: The Lost Gospel of Judas

Subject: Re: Answer to Agamemnon Re: The Lost Gospel of Judas
From: "Agamemnon"
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 18:19:38 +0100
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology, soc.history.ancient

"IE J" <inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:8gq0g.53090$d5.208115@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Agamemnon,
you and most of us other must have different views of what's meant by
providing evidence. You haven't provided any evidence what so ever for your assumption. You saying that you did so by refering to the Bible doesn't mean
anything and bear no validity at all.

Oh really.... your definition of evidence obviously only means evidence that you agree with. Well I am not going to play that game.

Provide proof, evidence, reference(-s); quotes or at least point us in
direction where your assumption could be discussed to be hinted true.

I have already done that. If you do not agree with it then that is your problem.

The New Testament provides clear proof that Christianity and they entire Judaic system of worship was used as one mass profiteering scam. For a start we have money changers in the temple which indicates that the temple was being run as a bazaar. Secondly there's is the Roman coinage is not permitted scam so that the money lenders can charge commission on all money exchange once the way in and again on the way out. All of this being sanctioned by the Jewish priesthood who took their share of the profits. Then you have the parable of the old lady which is used by Jesus to demand the same percentage share of a worshipers income for all worshipers rich or poor. Along with that there is the well documented Greco-Roman tradition of oral recitations of books and poems by travelling bards and sophists who were given donations by the listeners and that is how they made their living. Then there is the book industry. If there was no profit in it then why would this industry exist.


And you also better present differences or alikeness between early
handwritten text and later 'versions' of the Gospel to keep the subject
within topic for sci.archaeology.

Errrr..... ?

Why would I want to do that. I already told you that all these Gospels were all being concocted and mass produced for the purpose of profit. Even in the middle ages the church was still making huge amounts of dosh by producing illuminated manuscripts until the advent of printing brought about the reformation and the loss of church power.


Inger E
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
news:od-dnUwwdaqlv9_ZRVnyvA@xxxxxxxxxxxx

"IE J" <inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Txi0g.53059$d5.207784@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
> news:QeWdne5IgPv2NNzZnZ2dnUVZ8qednZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> "IE J" <inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:prh0g.53055$d5.208144@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> > "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
>> > news:ZsSdnTZl6NkaDNzZRVnyvg@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>
>> >> "IE J" <inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> news:q6d0g.53044$d5.208095@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >
>> >> > "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
>> >> > news:4radnT2XdJt1YN3ZnZ2dnUVZ8t2dnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "IE J" <inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:vw30g.53005$d5.208043@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
>> >> >> > news:ks6dnRcwGbckxt3ZRVnytA@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "IE J" <inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:hAM%f.52884$d5.207423@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> > Been away five days. On arriving home I found this
interesting
>> > url:
>> >> >> >> > http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/index.html
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I would be very glad to read more thoughts about it from
> members
>> > in
>> >> >> >> > groups.
>> >> >> >> > Sorry if I missed if someone rised the question before.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> After I showed the text of the so-called Gospel of Judas to >> >> >> >> my
> mum
>> > she
>> >> >> > said
>> >> >> >> it was written by people in order to make money from copies >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> it
>> >> >> >> being
>> >> >> >> sold.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> What was the profit margin on Gospel publishing back in 400 >> >> >> >> AD
?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > None what so ever. That type of Gospel would have been burnt >> >> >> > by
>> >> >> > sight
>> >> > had
>> >> >> > any of the other Christian groups found it. And it's not from
400
> AD
>> >> > it's
>> >> >> > dated between 280 and 340 AD. Which would have made it even
less
>> > likely
>> >> >> > because in those days there were so many disputes in the
>> >> >> > Christian
>> >> > world.
>> >> >> > The funny thing is that there were so many Bishops in the
Western
>> >> >> > Church
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >> > those days.
>> >> >> > 342/343 AD at the Synod meeting in 19 bishops from the Western
> Roman
>> >> >> > Empire
>> >> >> > and 75 from the Eastern Church participated. Among them at
least
>> >> >> > 2
>> > from
>> >> >> > England.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And what better reason could there be for all of these sects and
>> > bishops
>> >> >> than to make money. Each sect would have its own mysteries and
>> >> >> everyone
>> >> >> would be expected to donate something in the collection plate >> >> >> for
> them
>> > to
>> >> > be
>> >> >> revelled. Everyone got on the Christian money making bandwagon >> >> >> by
>> >> > invention
>> >> >> their own variations and the traditional religions were squeezed
>> >> >> out
>> >> >> of
>> >> > the
>> >> >> market. Even today you have Scientologists and Moonies out after
>> > peoples
>> >> >> money.
>> >> >
>> >> > Had they lived 1000 years later, you probably would have been
right,
>> >> > BUT
>> >> > neither they did nor were money of importance to them.
>> >>
>> >> Of course money was important to them. Why would they ask for
>> >> donations
>> >> if
>> >> it wasn't. They were out to make a fast cesterci and that's what it
>> >> all
>> >> boils down too.
>> >
>> > Please provide evidence that the early Church bishops asked for
> donations
>> > of
>> > money and that they 'were out to make a fast cesterci'.
>>
>> There's that parable about Jesus asking the richer worshipers to >> donate
> the
>> same percentage of their income as the poor ones i.e. all of it.
>>
>> Christianity was a profit driven enterprise. The more gospels were
> concocted
>> the more bucks there were to be made by drawing in new worshipers to
>> learn
>> the new mysteries that had been added. That's why Constantine demanded
it
> be
>> standardised to a single creed, to cut out the profiteers.
>
> Well you haven't provided any proof or 'evidence' what you provided is > a

I have provided you the evidence in the bible itself. Why would a God
require money ?

> non-Christian person's assumption. Which I find a bit odd since you in
> other
> discussions haven't shown such a face. So please try to present any
> evidence from 2nd and 3rd century supporting the assumption presented > by
> you
> above.

I have.

While the priests and church leaders were living a life of luxury paid for by the collection plate the ordinary worshipers were living in poverty and
the more Gospels that were concocted the more money there was to make by
people coming to hear them being read. The proof of the existence of such
an
industry is given by the numerous references in antiquity of books like
the
Iliad and Herodotus being read aloud to an audience who made a donation at
the end. It was no different to busking and the market had to be supplied
with new texts that people had not heard before so that the bards and
Christian preachers (the performers of these texts) could keep up their
standard of living. When Constantine brought this industry to a halt a new
industry emerged, that of sermons and Church apologists.





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