In article <RP_Rf.48430$d5.204640@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"IE J" <inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> "bernard" <bernard_connor11@xxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
> Uwe Müller wrote:
> > "bernard" <bernard_connor11@xxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:1142407737.340088.247910@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > snip >
> > >My mistake was to use the banned seven letter word axxxxxe to describe
> > >an ore of titanium dioxide.
> > >
> > > Mea culpa.
> > >Galileo muttered under his breath (But it does move).
> > The mistake was not, at least according to my taste, the mentioning of
> > anatase. The mistake was to present the presence or absence of anatase as
> > argument for the Vinland map, when in fact the argument was about particle
> > size, form and size distribution, which all do not occur naturally but
> > in industrial manufactured products. Nobody doubted the natural occurrence
> > of anatase, in a form, that can be easily distinguished from the
> > produced product.
> > As this had been done before, your remark was interpreted as taking side
> > with those, that lied about the argument being presented. This mistake has
> > been pointed out to you a number of times, but you elected to ignore the
> > help.
> > Now it really does not matter, wether this argument is true or not, if
> > someone is not able to address a counter argument, and has to resort to
> > faking and lying about it instead, he/she deserves every bit of criticism
> > he/she might get.
> > Not being able to concede that you misunderstood and misrepresented the
> > argument, lets your credibility decrease enormously. Pointing to Galileo
> > muttering under your breath, doesn't help you either, it only makes you
> > silly.
> > have fun
> > Uwe Mueller
> I did not take sides. I referred to the presence of axxxxxe as being a
> factor in the discussion. How others interpreted my comment is their
> own business.
> and apart from you not taking sides, which of course is your own business,
> we for several years here in group been told that anatase didn't exist in
> nature, could have existed in any circumstances before 1930's.
> Who said that? Among others those who goes crazy at the word anatase after
> the Danish scholars specialist in restauration and caretaking of old
> handwritten parchment didn't come to the of the anti-VM side assumed
> Problem with Anatase in the discussion around VM is that in 1430's in Vreta
> Kloster as well as in the monestries in mid-Europe Anatase was used for same
> purpose as the Romans used it coloring. Coloring of pages in handwritten
> books many times took place in same room as the copying of the text did.
> Thus it in itself makes a usage of the Anatase as an argument against VM
> unvalid. Not to mention the glue found on VM which was used from mid 20th
> centuries up to early 1990's in some cases to 'preserve' the documents. That
> VM and the other had had one or two 'conservation'works done showed the
> Danish analyse.
> BUT of course the word anatase as well as referring to the Danish
> specialists analyse here is stricktly 'forbidden' by some.
> Inger E
This is a complete misrepresentation. No post that I've seen has
claimed that anatase didn't exist in nature prior to the 1920's. Rather
the disputed claim is that the alleged uniformity in size and shape of
the anatase crystals in the sample from the VM, in the opinion of the
investigator, indicated to them that they were the result of the
industrial process that produces commerical anatase as used in pigments,
a process which really began in the 1920s. No other investigator has
looked at the anatase crystals on the VM and agreed (that I know of, but
I have no interest in the topic and haven't looked) and Seppo has posted
that the photomicrographs in the article don't seem to agree with the
It should be no surprise that anatase shows up in pigements. Its not as
common in nature as another form of titanium oxide, rutile (which can be
made from anatase by heating) but they do co-occur, and both would be
used to make yellows and browns.
There's no problem specifically with anatase showing up on the VM.
There would be a problem if the anatase could be shown to be the result
of industrial processing rather than a naturally occurring form such as
if TiCL4, an unstable titanium compound generated as an intermediate
product of the industrial conversion of anatase to rutile, were found
in traces on the VM.