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Re: Challenge for naysayers of the Kensington Runestone

Subject: Re: Challenge for naysayers of the Kensington Runestone
From: "ie" <I_e,>
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:45:54 GMT
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology, soc.culture.nordic, soc.history.medieval
"Tomi" <inv@xxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
news:Xns96AF87420AB19invininvalid@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Franz Gnaedinger" <frgn@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
> news:1123741565.993299.116470@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
>
> > So the story in favour of the Kensington Runestone requires
> > more elaboration. Let me try. The 40 brave men who plan
> > a royal expedition to the far west study all available old
> > reports, learn about runes, and luckily find a shipward
> > where ships are still being built in the way of the Vikings.
>
> There were shipyards building traditional ships at least up till the 15th
> century according to a reference Soren gave. And even if there had not
> been, they could have made aspings or - a bit more developed form -
"rapids
> boats" onsite. The know-how of how to build these lived to the 20th
> century.

shipyards in Norway and on the westcoast Sweden made small klinker-built
ships up to at least 19th century.
>
> > They need such a ship for exploring inland rivers and lakes.
> > Well, they go on their journey, reach the Hudson Bay, follow
> > the Nelson River, overcome rapids and falls by dragging their
> > vessel over land in the way of the ancient Greeks,
>
> The vikings dragged their boats, too, to bypass obstacles. There is a
place
> on the British isles where the ships heading for Iceland or Ireland were
> dragged over land (according to a TV documentary I saw).
>
> > reach
> > Lake Winnipeg, and moor their ship on the southern shore,
> > where they build camp A. 10 men remain in camp A, guarding
> > the ship. 30 men march southward. After fourteen days they
> > arrive some twenty kilometers north of Kensington Minnesota.
> > Here they build camp B. 10 men remain in camp B. 20 men
> > march southward for another day, looking out for a river
> > or a lake where they might fish.
>
> In fact, the area was full of lakes. There was no need to go to look for
> one.
>
> > On the evening they build
> > camp C in the area of Kensington. On the next morning,
> > out of whatever reason, they return to camp B - where they
> > find the 10 men they left behind "red with blood and dead,"
> > apparently killed by Indians (the bubonic plague is ruled
> > out by your information that the incubation time is only
> > two to ten days). Shocked and frightened, they flee to camp
> > C, where they feel secure enough to commemorate the sad fate
> > of their comrades on a greywacke slab - in runes, which are
> > more easily carved than Roman letters and numerals.
>
> As I wrote earlier, I don't buy this scenario. These men are afraid for
> their lives. The enemy could be lurking behind any tree. What would you
do?


You missed the known facts. In Minnesota they didn't have enemies the local
natives from Minnesota along the Great Lakes over to the Atlantic were
friends and had been trading furs, pearls and other things from 1180's with
the Norse. The hostile group were according to oral tradition among some of
the natives elderly the same as the natives in the fortified settlement
where the massacre of the native settlers in time correspond to King Hakon's
warfleet passing Greenland.

According to oral tradition redbeard men had been massacred by people from
that settlement some kilometer north along same valley's northern end prior
to the massacre. Thus when the survivors had left that part of Vinland(yes
that's also part of Vinland what was known in Medieval Age) arriving to
Kensington area they were safe.
They left a message to the other group of Norse sailing together with Paul
Knutsson down to a lake north-east of Minnesota. No problem with that. In
the group that survived were Ivar Bardson.

> Start hitting a stone with a hammer and chisel instead of trying to get
> away? And why would you be carrying those rather heavy tools along,
anyway?

They always had that type of chisel with them. One of the three an ordinary
man sailing had with him. No problem with that.
>
> Everything is possible but certain things just are less likely than
others.
>
> Here' a competing scenario: Somebody with connections to Minnesota gets
his
> hands on a Medieval document, perhaps it reads exactly as the text on the
> stone. This person has strong nationalistic, anti-Swedish sentiments, or
> perhaps he just wants to make money. Maybe both. He contacts Ohman who
then
> "finds" the stone carved for the purpose.

That scenario minus the Ohman part happened in late 1490's and the person in
question sailed on a Royal Danish mission to retake lost land in 1521.

Inger E



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