|
|
Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
>
> richardparker01@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> > Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
> > > richardparker01@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
> > > > > "t(nospam)kavanagh" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "t(nospam)kavanagh" wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
> > > > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > OTOH, as I say, there's certainly plenty of archaeological
> > > > > > > > > and anthropological evidence for the links between the
> > > > > > > > > American NW Coast and Hawaii, and Polynesia more generally.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And as I have repeatedly told you, your source is faulty.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > tk
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have many sources.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your source (singularity intended) for the "plenty of
> > > > > > archaeological and
> > > > > > anthropological evidence for the links between the American NW
> > > > > > Coast and
> > > > > > Hawaii, and Polynesia more generally," are, as I have pointed out so
> > > > > > often, faulty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I seriously doubt you have any beyond AIitP.
> > > > >
> > > > > This just shows how little you know, my dear Tom...
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you do, show them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > tk
> > > > >
> > > > > How about this, for starters,
> > > > >
> > > > > Irving Goldman on the possible
> > > > > cultural and linguistic contacts
> > > > > between the American/Canadian
> > > > > North West Coast Natives and
> > > > > Polynesia
> > > > >
> > > > > Irving Goldman, THE MOUTH OF HEAVEN: AN
> > > > > INTRODUCTION TO KWAKIUTL RELIGIOUS
> > > > > THOUGHT, John Wiley & Sons, NY, 1975.
> > > > >
> > > > > Previous to writing this book, Goldman had also
> > > > > written ANCIENT POLYNESIAN SOCIETY, a study
> > > > > of Polynesian traditions. This gives him a very special
> > > > > and unique perspective. This is why his comments
> > > > > should carry an additional weight.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is what he writes on p. 1,
> > > > >
> > > > > "For reasons that remain to be discovered, the Indian
> > > > > tribes of this area [NW Coast] share formal principles
> > > > > of rank, lineage, and kinship with Pacific islanders."
> > > > >
> > > > > What a strange way to put it... "For reasons that remain
> > > > > to be discovered?" Perhaps the reasons are the easiest
> > > > > in the world to discover -- for those, that is, who will
> > > > > take into consideration the most basic and logical
> > > > > principles of maritime migrations. The reason may be
> > > > > that the Hawaiian Islands are _downwind_ from NW
> > > > > Coast, generally speaking, and so they can be
> > > > > considered as the most natural recipient of NW Coast
> > > > > migrations.
> > > > >
> > > > > And Goldman writes further,
> > > > >
> > > > > "The Kwakiutl, especially, seem very close to what I
> > > > > have designated as the "traditional" Polynesian society.
> > > > > They share with Polynesians a status system of graded
> > > > > hereditary ranking of individuals and of lineages; a
> > > > > social class system of chiefs ("nobles"), commoners,
> > > > > and slaves; concepts of primogeniture and seniority of
> > > > > descent lines; a concept of abstract supernatural
> > > > > powers as special attributes of chiefs; and a lineage
> > > > > system that leans toward patriliny, but acknowledges
> > > > > the maternal lines as well. Finally, Kwakiutl and
> > > > > eastern Polynesians, especially, associate ambiguity of
> > > > > lineage membership with "Hawaiian" type kinship, a
> > > > > fully classificatory system that does not distinguish
> > > > > between maternal and paternal sides, or between
> > > > > siblings and cousins."
> > > >
> > > > Or you could point out that two very similar societies evolved
> > > > convergently.
> > > >
> > > > See: for some conventional (very) cold water on this speculation (and
> > > > it's much, much more boring and insistent than a Chinese water drip
> > > > torture):
> > > >
> > > > The evolution of complex hunter-gatherers on the Kodiak Archipelago
> > > > http://faculty.washington.edu/fitzhugh/kod1.html
> > >
> > > Convergent evolution might make sense here, Richard, if
> > > there was no other evidence to indicate migration or, at
> > > least, social contact. But there's much such evidence.
> > >
> > > > but the NW American/Hawaii/Maori progression is a lot more fun, and it
> > > > might make sense of similar tattoos, languages (I see Hawaii to Maori
> > > > but how about Haida/Kwakiutl to Hawaii ?)
> >
> > Is there any similarity between NW Canadian native languages and
> > Hawaiian or Maori? Are there any common words?
>
> Richard,
>
> This question is rather complicated. To begin with, there
> are a great many Native languages on the Pacific Coast of
> Canada. In fact, there are many language families there!
> (Some of them already nearly extinct.)
>
> It would take many years to study these languages, and to
> compare them with those of Polynesia. Nobody is doing this
> work now, although some linguists of the past did find
> numerous parallels between the Native Canadian languages of
> the area and the Polynesian languages. See in particular
> about the work of Hill-Tout. Some of this info can be found
> here,
>
> Polynesians and Canada
> http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/tran/nwc.htm
>
> There are all too many bigoted academic scholars who are
> dismissive of the talents and abilities of the Native
> Canadians. They dismiss out of hand the clear archaeological
> and anthropological connections between these cultures. So
> if they are shameless enough to do that, what use is it to
> even begin to deal with the issues of linguistics, that are
> by their own nature far more complicated and
> time-consuming...
>
> These are the spiritual children of Bishop Landa (see the
> sig).
>
> Regards,
>
> Yuri.
>
> Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.trends.ca/~yuku
>
> We found a large number of books in these characters
> and, as they contained nothing in which there were not
> to be seen superstition and lies of the devil, we burned
> them all, which they regretted to an amazing degree.
> -- Bishop Diego de Landa on his dealings with the Mayans.
As you can probably tell from Yuri's increasingly deranged abuse of the
people who don't accept his theories, his web site is not where you
would look for a rational and balanced examination of this matter. When
you've had a look at it, I recommend you follow the discussion of the
work of Hill-Tout and Campbell which went on for some considerable time
on this group. (I can even send you some comments on it which I wrote at
the time.) The upshot of it is that there are no more resemblances
between Polynesian and any known language of the NW coast than between
any two languages chosen at random. In other words, linguistic evidence
fails to support the Heyerdahl-Kuchinsky view of Polynesian origins.
Ross Clark
|
|