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Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in moderna

Subject: Re: takes 1.5 gallons gasoline to produce 1 gallon ethanol in modernagriculture
From: Pooh Bear
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:55:29 +0100
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture, sci.energy, sci.chem

Dan Bloomquist wrote:

> Pooh Bear wrote:
>
> >
> > Dan Bloomquist wrote:
> >
> >>Pooh Bear wrote:
> >>
> >>>It's pretty clear that ethanol and bio-diesel will simply be a part of the 
> >>>fix ( maybe
> >>>10-20% of road fuel )
> >>
> >>http://eed.llnl.gov/flow/02flow.php
> >>
> >>3 to 6 quad at today's demand. Take the most exceptional producer of
> >>ethanol in the world, Brazil. 4Billion gallons a year, (gross, no
> >>EROEI). That's one third of a quad. So, how do you figure?
> >
> > If Brazil alone can manage that much, I'm sure the US can do better !
>
> 'That much..' Just what do you mean? It is one percent of our
> transportation demand. I'll spot you a raging EROEI of 2 and now it is
> half a percent. So, who in the world will go hungry if we feed our
> demand for energy from crop fuels?

Let's take my 10% figure. I mentioned both ethanol *and* biodiesel so let's say 
they each
contribute equally. So you want 5% x 26.5 quads of ethanol = 1.325 quads. 
That's 4 times what
Brazil's producing. A challenging task but do you really believe it's not 
do-able long term ?
Especially with cellulosic ethanol production too ?

Additionally, I'd hope that overall gas consumption might actually drop in the 
long term thus
making the target easier to hit. If it doesn't drop it begs a few serious 
questions about the
long term viability of US energy policy !

Incidentally I gather that Brazil's offering to sell fuel alcohol to the USA. 
Nowhere did I say
that imports don't qualify.


> Have you seen the land mass Brazil uses to produce this .3 quad/year?

I'm sure you'll tell me.


> We have done this before and you have yet to show numbers that support
> your claims.

Seems like a good time to look at it then.

> >>>The simplest fix is to use less energy and ensure that it's used 
> >>>efficiently.
> >>
> >>I've been saying that for years. When do we start?
> >
> > Smaller engined vehicles ? Diesel engines in place of gasoline.
>
> When do we start?

Now maybe ?


> > Better insulation for homes
> > and offices. Avoid simultaneous use of heating and ac. It's really quite 
> > easy.
> >
> > I'm at the point where for most of the year my largest use of electricity 
> > is my PC followed
> > by the TV. LCD displays are making part of that equation better but it 
> > would be nice to see
> > some attention to low power CPUs. This one uses 70W for the CPU alone.
>
> All this has nothing to do with liquid fuels.

Is no oil used for electricity generation in the USA ? It affects overall 
demand for oil.


> Numbers:

You're replying to someone else's post here.

Graham


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