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Re: More Websites that don't work

Subject: Re: More Websites that don't work
From: The New Guy
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 21:15:25 -0500
Newsgroups: opera.mac

> > Its time for Opera designers get back to basics.
> 
> So Opera should just support web standards? The page in your opening post  
> is a real mess. Opera is doing a pretty good job displaying it over here.  
> Do you want all that to go away?

I don't know anything about web design except for one thing.  When the 
page doesn't display or freezes, Opera and everybody else loses.
 
> > Opera is going to lose a LOT of people unnecessarily if they
> > don't get their act in order.
> 
> If the entire web page designing world would stick to web standards, Opera  
> could actually do that. Away with quirksmode! GO STANDARDS! Oh, and as an  
> added bonus *all* pages would display in *every* browser that respects  
> those standards.

Standards, Shmandards.  Every other browser I try works fine.  There 
is NO excuse any more.  It would different if some worked and some 
didn't.  
 
> > When numerous pages don't work (usually
> > media rich Javascript stuff I think) you have no choice.  You HAVE to
> > use another browser.
> 
> First things first. A lot of those so called 'media rich' sites don't  
> actually play nice. There is a lot of browser sniffing involved and it's  
> pretty much always IE and Firefox that get the good stuff. 

So you're saying if the website thinks its not dealing with IE or 
Firefox, it makes things difficult?

> Do it right, use object detection and degrade gracefully when something is 
> not  
> supported. 

In laymen's language, could you repeat that?

> Usually masking Opera as Firefox will get you a good working page. 
> So who's fault is that?

Probably the website.  But somehow Opera must get the display to work.  
And Javascript to stop freezing and stalling.  Those dreaded spinning 
beach balls are almost never seen in my other browsers.  

But you bring up an interesting point.  I've always masked as IE.  Or 
taken a chance and identified as Opera.  Never tried Firefox.  So I 
just went into Preferences but I couldn't find the masking area.  Only 
when I go to individual site preferences.  Did I miss it?  I'm using 
9.21 / build 3678.  I just downloaded the newer version but haven't 
tried it yet.  And is it now designed to identify as Opera until a 
site gives problems, then you can try masking?  And what is the 
difference between "Identify as Firefox" and "Mask as Firefox"?
> And here comes the kicker: you don't *have* to use another browser to  
> use/visit that site. Just visit another (better) site! That's the only way  
> those people will get their act together. Yes, there are sites that might  
> be worth visiting. But when a site is discriminating a part of their  
> (potential) userbase, I'd rather find another site.

Well I'd love to do that except one of the cursed sites is Ebay.  And 
there simply isn't any other site like it in the world.  If there was, 
I'd be gone in a heartbeat.  They are awful.  Hate'em.
 
> I could probably write a whole lot more about this, but it's Opera that is  
> playing nice by trying to make the web a better place. Have you ever heard  
> of their Open the Web initiative[1]? Opera actively contacts site owners  
> to fix their sites so it works in Opera and probably a lot more browsers  
> because it's mostly about following the standards.

Why does IE not follow standards?  Does it somehow allow them 
monopolistic control of the web?
 
> One last thing. You can shout all you want but I doubt that will work.  
> Many people have shouted for various reasons and they usually end up with  
> nothing. If you want Opera to become a better browser, find out why the  
> site is not working[2] and file a bugreport. If it's a bug in Opera, it  
> will (hopefully) get fixed, if it's something with the site the Open the  
> Web team can spring into action. It's good to be critical about what is  
> happening, but also be constructive.
> 
> [1] http://my.opera.com/community/openweb/
> [2] Or use this: Help -> Report a site problem

Good advice.  Many thanks.  Look forward to your responses to the 
above queries.

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