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Re: GUI controls for instrumentation

Subject: Re: GUI controls for instrumentation
From: "Dariusz J. Garbowski"
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:30:51 +0000
On 03/25/2006 10:59 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le samedi 25 mars 2006 Ã 10:47 +0000, Dariusz J. Garbowski a Ãcrit :

If it where that easy, we'd have the latest eclipse version in Fedora
with all the major plugins instead of the current situation.
Heh, it *is* that easy -- get Sun's Java stack, install, download your app of choice, install and run!

It's not, I'm sorry. You require lots of end-user work to make it
anything like work. That's why a stupid app like the logitech remote
controler (which has very simple fontionnality) is still not available
for linux even if it was written in java to be cross-platform.

There's nothing in the applications themselves to stop working on Linux. Work user has to put comes from the fact that distributions tend to make user's life more difficult by not making it trivial to have e.g. Sun's JRE installed (I don't want to blame distro developers here, Sun is probably the most guilty by not allowing to repackage and redistribute JRE). Yet situation is IMHO similar to proprietary NVidia drivers: users just have it easier thanks to the work of Livna developers (at least on Fedora). And, hey!, users still manage to install proprietary nvidia drivers from NVidia rather than Livna, with all the hassle it makes! Users are not stupid, they are ready and able to do quite a few things when they have clear instructions.

Let's say we have "Livna JRE" to install using yum. What's missing to make running Java apps trivial is making sure that there is at least a simple shell script to run it from command line. Say, user opens up "Run Command" dialog and types "jmeter" and it just starts. Of course the script would need to line on $PATH. Other "use case" is user opens up application's directory and double clicks the script. Application starts. Many applications already do provide it: NetBeans, Eclipse, JMeter...

Then a step further is packaging applications for distro, like each other native application.

For a developper java is easy. As soon as you need an average end-user
to make it work and are paying the support costs it suddenly is no
longer anywhere near a good choice.

Nothing to do with Java applications, it's all about packaging. If your application is packaged for Linux, it will be easy to run! Vice versa it can be difficult for Windows if it's not packaged for Windows. Where's Java fault here?

And I'm not even talking about the differences between jvm behaviour (if
you think you can go sun-only just compare the arches sun, ibm and bea

You asked about *easy* way -- the easiest, least troublesome is to use Sun's JRE. You are free to try other solutions too. You have this freedom. It's good. Don't want problems? Try Sun first. If you really need to run on more exotic hardware, you are likely to hit other issues, yet it's a particular JRE's issue. Bug IBM/Sun/BEA to fix it :-)

Same with free stack. Everybody knows it's not quite there yet to run all Java software. And yes there's a few Java apps out there using sun.* packages -- not a Java issue either. Bug application developer to fix it so it's ready for free stack.

Want to avoid as much issues as you can? Get Sun's JRE and make sure it's on your PATH before free stack is.


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