Cheers,
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Tschofenig [mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 July 2007 7:33 PM
To: Dawson, Martin
Cc: Winterbottom, James; ECRIT
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] LoST
Hi Martin,
Dawson, Martin wrote:
Hi Hannes,
This seems a bit bogged down in the here and now... A LIS for almost
any
access technology, with or without GPS, could produce a geo-shape as a
consequence of the location-determination technique it employs. What
3GPP may be thinking now doesn't seem particularly pertinent.
True. A LCS (this is the correct terminology now) can indeed produce a
PIDF-LO with the Geo-Shapes format.
When you use a GPS receiver today (and probably for a long time) then it
does not produce a format in XML format since there is just no LCP
involved.
There's already a pdif-lo-profile draft ([sic] is the spelling ever
going to get corrected btw or is a title immutable?) that states what
shapes should be used and defines what the LIS clients can expect to
receive.
We decided not to change the file name. When the document gets published
as RFC then the filename does not matter anway.
Btw, we recognized the wrong spelling with version -04 or so.
While I accept that a LoST implementor could add support for that
profile, as long as it is optional to do so, the client cannot be sure
that anything other than a point will be supported.
A new document can also say that the new location profile is mandatory
to implement. Do you think that will be a problem?
This adds the dual
issue of making the client always convert to a point form and/or
eliminating the prospect of LoST servers being able to do more
sophisticated routing based on weighted coverage by uncertainty.
Rather than invite the compatibility issue at a later date, wouldn't
it
be more prudent just to add the requirement now?
No doubt that we could add an additional location profile right now.
I am just repeating what we agreed earlier in the working group on this
particular issue. If the working group now thinks that this is a problem
then we should re-consider it. I just want to open-up previously closed
or postponed issues too quickly.
Ciao
Hannes
Cheers,
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Tschofenig [mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 July 2007 6:55 PM
To: Winterbottom, James
Cc: ECRIT
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] LoST
Hi James,
Winterbottom, James wrote:
Hi Hannes,
That makes perfect sense.
The issue that I am most concerned about is the limitation in the
shape
representation in the basic location profile. As it currently stands
I
cannot use standard GPS related shapes, my end-point has to interpret
location and put into a profile. This is incompatible with a large
number of solutions deployed today on which many deployments will be
based, at least initially. I strongly urge this WG to reconsider this
restriction and include circle, and ellipse at a minimum.
Some time back we also discussed this issue and the conclusion was the
following:
* Let us build a mechanism in there to have a mechanism to extend the
location shapes.
* Let us specify simple location shapes first.
I know that there is this limitation with geodetic shapes and a
separate
location profile would be needed to address GPS and the cellular
world.
On the cellular aspect we also had a discussion with the 3GPP. There
they are currently not using LoST at the end point since they are
focusing on a different architecture (see
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tschofenig-ecrit-architecture-overview-
00).
Even if they would use LoST at the end point they most likely want to
hide the location information of the end point or to make use of
information like cell ids (as recorded in the issue tracker a while
ago:
http://www.tschofenig.com:8080/lost/issue16).
Now, everything boils down to the question of GPS. Since GPS produces
data in a format that is not PIDF-LO alike we can already assume that
the end host has to understand the format. It can now encode it in
different ways. In previous discussions a couple of us wanted to add a
polygon as a location profile to the LoST document since it would also
address the location hiding requirement. Since this issue came also up
in the location hiding context we postpone this topic entirely.
Hence, it is up to us to come up with a location profile that supports
* a circle
* an ellipse
* a polygon,
* a combination of the above
* cell-ids
if we think there is a need todo so.
Ciao
Hannes
Cheers
James
-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Tschofenig [mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 July 2007 4:58 PM
To: Winterbottom, James
Cc: ECRIT
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] LoST
Hi James,
let me pick a concrete example: LoST server discovery.
Currently, we have specified the usage of DHCP and DNS. Only the
former
allows to discover the LoST server in the access network. I am,
however,
aware of the work on HELD discovery, see
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/geopriv/draft-thomson-geopriv-lis-discovery-
01.txt,
that aims to discover a HELD server in the access network using DNS
mechanisms.
Now, even though the current LoST draft does not describe how to
discover a LoST server using DNS in the access network that can be
extended later when the above document is generalized (which I think
would be a good idea).
Does that make sense to you?
Ciao
Hannes
Winterbottom, James wrote:
Hi Hannes,
What exactly do you mean by postponed?
Cheers
James
-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Tschofenig [mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 July 2007 5:58 AM
To: ECRIT
Subject: [Ecrit] LoST
Hi all,
during the WGLC we have received a number of comments. Then, we
delayed
the completion of the work because of the location hiding
discussions.
Now, you can find the latest version of the document at:
http://www.tschofenig.com/svn/draft-ietf-ecrit-lost/draft-ietf-ecrit-los
t-
06.txt
We have also updated the DHCP-based LoST discovery draft (based on
the
comments we received from the DHC working group). The document can
be
found here:
http://www.tschofenig.com/svn/draft-tschofenig-dhc-lost-discovery/draft-
ietf-ecrit-dhc-lost-discovery-02.txt
Now, here is the unfortunate news: It seems that we did not submit
the
LoST draft :-(
Everyone was assuming that someone else is going to submit it.
Ciao
Hannes
PS: James has recently sent a number of comments. Some of them got
reflected in the document (namely the editorial onces). Others got
intentionally postponed since we discussed them already in the
past.
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