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Re: [apnic-talk] Elections

Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Elections
From: Desi Valli
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:09:45 +0530

I forgot to add one more broader observation.

 

·         Why is that the vote counts of lost candidates are not been announced.?

 

Regards

Desi Valli

 

From: Desi Valli
Sent: 09 March 2010 12:57 PM
To: 'David Conrad'; Naresh Ajwani
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [apnic-talk] Elections

 

Hi David,

 

I can’t call this as an evidence but could be considered as per the law of interpretation.

 

We all went through what happened on the last day, during vote count. As a first timer in APNIC conferences, following are some of the observations that make me to interpret that the intentions of ECs are not neutral, always.

 

Broadly:

1.        Elections are conducted by ECs instead of an Election commission or someone who is not part of current responsibilities.

2.        Voting is again managed by the secretariat not by a any neutral body.

3.        The scrutinizers are not selected before the start of election, but only at the time of counting.

4.        There is NO maximum number of years defined to be an EC, it looked as if the Asian Internet community has a huge shortage of eminent and qualified people.

5.        THE organisation that is responsible to make Internet work, keeps a LOOPHOLE open in the voting process in the name of proxy voting, that helps the contestants to bargain between, and manipulate the outcome.

·         (I’m from India which is the largest democratic in the world, with more than 750 million eligible voters, conducts the entire election process through electronic voting systems, as the people believe that the ballet system has loopholes for contestants to manipulate the outcome – India is still a developing country)

 

On the specific incident:

6.        One of the EC member SUSPENDS the counting process, without HEARING both the sides, or CONSULTING other EC members.

7.        Does the constitution allows “ONLY ONE” EC to suspend the counting process, without even discussing the case with the other EC members? (I couldn’t find any such document online, if so please send me the link)

8.        The EC who is also a complainant is been appointed as the chair of the “enquiry commission” by another current EC who was the chair at that juncture, in the excuse of he being the contestant. Isn’t that obvious that there SHOULD be only neutral person as chair in such an event.

9.        Even after I objecting the decision of the complainant being the chair of the commission, there were no moral responsibility visible, the chair didn’t step-down or ask for a consensus among the members to continue as the chair.

 

The explanation of the incident was given to other EC members, only after the suspension of counting processes was executed. Good that James was matured enough to demand for an explanation before going for a consensus on dismissing the counting processes. Otherwise it would have been a suo-motto decision of ONE of the ECs, not a democratic decision. How could an EC who is believed and trusted to be qualified and experienced to run an organisation like APNIC, take such a hasty decision? This is good enough to be interpreted/considered as an EVIDENCE that the undemocratic decision of suspending the counting process without consulting the other EC members, is definitely not in the interests of APNIC.

 

PS: if I had been an EC, I would have demanded resignation from such ECs who displays a total immaturity and incompetency in handling such serious issues and taking hasty decisions. The unilateral & dictatorial decision of suspending the counting processes is unconstitutional and undemocratic.

 

 

Regards

Desi Valli

 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Conrad
Sent: 09 March 2010 10:05 AM
To: Naresh Ajwani
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Elections

 

Naresh,

 

I always thought EC members represented themselves and not their organizations, their countries of origin, their language group, their religion, etc.

 

Do you have some evidence this isn't the case?

 

Regards,

-drc

 

On Mar 8, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Naresh Ajwani wrote:

Dear Maemura San,

 

Hi,

 

Certainly, I wud clarify the _expression_ in due course of discussions and you are right it's about the composition of EC because of voting pattern/stalk.

 

In my opinion, “Internet is the leveller” but the table and the process of Elections are distinctively dividing the region- I may be wrong in assuming the same but really dont know that how Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and many such countries can get the representation in current EC structure.

 

I also don’t know that how can we check a situation like that as "Security Council" if 4 EC members from 3 countries of the same belt i.e. “majority” decides to block, say for example some country wants to have NIR.

 

Concerns are more on the election process but let other members from the Talk Group also have a look at the table and roles and obligations of EC.

 

Year

EC1

EC2

EC4

EC5

EC3

EC6

EC7

EC8

1998

Toru Takahashi , 
Japan

Geoff Huston, 
Australia

Xing Li, 
China

Srisakdi Charmonman,
Thailand

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

 

1999

Toru Takahashi , 
Japan

Oh Kwang Sok, 
Korea

Xing Li, 
China

Tommi Chen, 
Malaysia

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Geoff Huston, 
Australia

 

2000

Kazunori Konishi, 
Japan

Oh Kwang Sok, 
Korea

Xing Li, 
China

Tommi Chen, 
Malaysia

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Geoff Huston, 
Australia

 

2001

MAEMURA Akinori, 
Japan

Byung-Kyu Kim,
 Korea

Xing Li, 
China

Qian Hualin, 
China

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Geoff Huston, 
Australia

 

2002

MAEMURA Akinori, 
Japan

Byung-Kyu Kim,
 Korea

Xing Li, 
China

Qian Hualin, 
China

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Geoff Huston, 
Australia

 

2003

MAEMURA Akinori , 
Japan

Yong Wan Ju, 
Korea

Qian Hualin, 
China

Ma Yan, 
China

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Geoff Huston, 
Australia

 

2004

MAEMURA Akinori , 
Japan

Yong Wan Ju, 
Korea

Qian Hualin, 
China

Ma Yan, 
China

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Vinh Ngo, 
Australia

 

2005

MAEMURA Akinori , 
Japan

Moo-Ho Billy Cheon, 
Korea

Qian Hualin, 
China

Ma Yan, 
China

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Vinh Ngo, 
Australia

 

2006

MAEMURA Akinori , 
Japan

Moo-Ho Billy Cheon, 
Korea

Qian Hualin, 
China

Ma Yan, 
China

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Vinh Ngo, 
Australia

 

2007

MAEMURA Akinori ,
 Japan

Kusumba Sridhar, 
India

Wei Mao, 
China

Vinh Ngo, 
Australia

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Ming-Cheng Liang, 
Taiwan

Paul Wilson, 
Australia

2008

MAEMURA Akinori, 
Japan

Kusumba Sridhar, 
India

Wei Mao, 
China

Ma Yan, 
China

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

Ming-Cheng Liang, 
Taiwan

Paul Wilson, 
Australia

2009

MAEMURA Akinori, 
Japan

Hyun-Joon Kwon, 
Korea

Jian Zhang, 
China

Ma Yan, 
China

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

James Spenceley, 
Australia

Paul Wilson, 
Australia

2010

MAEMURA Akinori, 
Japan

Hyun-Joon Kwon, 
Korea

Jian Zhang, 
China

Ma Yan, 
China

Che-Hoo Cheng,
Hong Kong

Kuo-Wei Wu, 
Taiwan

James Spenceley, 
Australia

Paul Wilson, 
Australia

 

 

Regards and best wishes,

 

Naresh Ajwani

 

-----Original Message-----
From: MAEMURA Akinori [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: 09 March 2010 08:42
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Elections

 

Dear Naresh,

 

|| The table is obvious on many unspoken but visibly glaring aspects which, coupled

|| with certain important excerpts of the by-laws reproduced below, will help in

|| understanding the areas of concern as well as the way forward for the esteemed

|| APNIC-TALK group:

 

Here I found a strong _expression_ "visibly glaring aspects"

and it seems to be of the line-up of members of the Executive

Council since its beginning.

 

 

What do you try to mean? 

 

 

I agree whatever concern can be a start of good discussion.

I really encourage apnic-talk for an active discussion.

 

 

 

A tiny point is that some of what you excerpted are not what

by-law provides, but shown in

which the EC must comply as well, though.

 

 

Regards,

MAEMURA Akinori, a current EC member

 

 

 

In message <[email protected]>

   "[apnic-talk] Elections"

   ""Naresh Ajwani" <[email protected]>" wrote:

 

|

|

| Dear All,

| On the basis of my association and experience during the last few years, I

| appreciate and respect the processes and bottom up approach being followed at

| APNIC and have been strongly advocating the same at various forums. In the same

| spirit, I am confident that the call made for election reforms, at the recently

| held meet at KL, would also be looked into with a positive and all inclusive

| manner. 

| Before any reforms are undertaken, one needs to understand the past scenario and

| the composition of EC (given below) which can be a good starting point:

|

| Year

| EC1

| EC2

| EC4

| EC5

| EC3

| EC6

| EC7

| EC8

|

| 1998

| Toru Takahashi ,

| Japan

| Geoff Huston,

| Australia

| Xing Li,

| China

| Srisakdi Charmonman,

| Thailand

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

|                    

|

| 1999

| Toru Takahashi ,

| Japan

| Oh Kwang Sok,

| Korea

| Xing Li,

| China

| Tommi Chen,

| Malaysia

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Geoff Huston,

| Australia

|

| 2000

| Kazunori Konishi,

| Japan

| Oh Kwang Sok,

| Korea

| Xing Li,

| China

| Tommi Chen,

| Malaysia

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Geoff Huston,

| Australia

|

| 2001

| MAEMURA Akinori,

| Japan

| Byung-Kyu Kim,

 Korea

| Xing Li,

| China

| Qian Hualin,

| China

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Geoff Huston,

| Australia

|

| 2002

| MAEMURA Akinori,

| Japan

| Byung-Kyu Kim,

 Korea

| Xing Li,

| China

| Qian Hualin,

| China

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Geoff Huston,

| Australia

|

| 2003

| MAEMURA Akinori ,

| Japan

| Yong Wan Ju,

| Korea

| Qian Hualin,

| China

| Ma Yan,

| China

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Geoff Huston,

| Australia

|

| 2004

| MAEMURA Akinori ,

| Japan

| Yong Wan Ju,

| Korea

| Qian Hualin,

| China

| Ma Yan,

| China

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Vinh Ngo,

| Australia

|

| 2005

| MAEMURA Akinori ,

| Japan

| Moo-Ho Billy Cheon,

| Korea

| Qian Hualin,

| China

| Ma Yan,

| China

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Vinh Ngo,

| Australia

|

| 2006

| MAEMURA Akinori ,

| Japan

| Moo-Ho Billy Cheon,

| Korea

| Qian Hualin,

| China

| Ma Yan,

| China

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Vinh Ngo,

| Australia

|

| 2007

| MAEMURA Akinori ,

 Japan

| Kusumba Sridhar,

| India

| Wei Mao,

| China

| Vinh Ngo,

| Australia

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Ming-Cheng Liang,

| Taiwan

| Paul Wilson,

| Australia

|

| 2008

| MAEMURA Akinori,

| Japan

| Kusumba Sridhar,

| India

| Wei Mao,

| China

| Ma Yan,

| China

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| Ming-Cheng Liang,

| Taiwan

| Paul Wilson,

| Australia

|

| 2009

| MAEMURA Akinori,

| Japan

| Hyun-Joon Kwon,

| Korea

| Jian Zhang,

| China

| Ma Yan,

| China

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| James Spenceley,

| Australia

| Paul Wilson,

| Australia

|

| 2010

| MAEMURA Akinori,

| Japan

| Hyun-Joon Kwon,

| Korea

| Jian Zhang,

| China

| Ma Yan,

| China

| Che-Hoo Cheng,

| Hong Kong

| Kuo-Wei Wu,

| Taiwan

| James Spenceley,

| Australia

| Paul Wilson,

| Australia

|  

| The table is obvious on many unspoken but visibly glaring aspects which, coupled

| with certain important excerpts of the by-laws reproduced below, will help in

| understanding the areas of concern as well as the way forward for the esteemed

| APNIC-TALK group:

| The Executive Council:

| .       .....the Executive Council shall be composed of seven members elected at

| AGMs in accordance with the provisions of by-laws.

| .      Executive Council members shall serve on the Executive Council in their

| personal capacity and shall act in the best interests of the APNIC membership and

| not the Member organisation to which that individual belongs. Only one individual

| per Member organisation may be elected to sit on the Executive Council.

| Quorum

| .       A meeting of the Executive Council is duly constituted for all purposes

| if at the commencement of the meeting there are present in person not less than

| one half of the total number of Council members or their duly authorised

| representatives.

| EC Confidentiality            

|  

| .       All business undertaken by the EC is confidential to the EC.

| .       All EC members are requested to execute a formal non-disclosure

| undertaking with APNIC

| .       EC members should respect this confidentiality by:

|            not recording EC meetings

|            not inviting other members to participate in, or listen into EC

| meetings without the prior permission   

|                of the Chair of the EC

|            not circulating EC mail messages to any third party without the

| express permission of the Chair

|              of the EC-not divulging any membership information of which they are

| aware as an EC member.

| Regards and best wishes,

| Naresh Ajwani

|

|

| _______________________________________________

| apnic-talk mailing list

|

|

_______________________________________________
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http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk

 



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