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Re: [apnic-talk] Application for India NIR - Call for Comments

Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Application for India NIR - Call for Comments
From: "G P Singh"
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:10:41 +0530 IST
Dear Philip,

I appreciate your valued concern and time devoted by you.

I believe the intention of Nixi is to provide a better services at local
level at low cost in regional language as per Indian Standard Time.

In our country there are three categories of ISPs


Class A ISPs are operating at National Level and most of them having there
IP address resources from APNIC

Class B ISPs are operating at State Level and Few of them having there IP
address resources from APNIC

Class C ISPs are operating at District Level and very less of them having
there IP address resources from APNIC

When ISPs who are not having there IP resources generally request to there
upstream provider.

Case 1.

If ISPs are running there services to cooperate customers (point to point
/ lease line ) only
The requirement of IP Address resources are very less. And in routine the
requirement is full filled by there upstream service provider.

Case 2

If ISPs are running Broadband services  The requirement of IP Address
resources are very high depending upon his subscriber base.

For example for a subscriber base of 5000 one need at least 2500 IP
address resources. IP address allocation may vary depending upon the
technology adopted / area topology / population density / concurrent user
In case 2 the upstream service provider not full fill the requirement and
this scenario  ISP run the proxy server.

In both the above mentioned cases the bandwidth Intake is approximately same.

The commercial constrain of taking IP address resources from APNIC is the
membership tier fee. Then annual IP address allocation cost.

NIXI as NIR definitely address the above issues like other existing NIRs
doing in there respective region.

In today business scenario each and every company in the world is cutting
cost for there survival.

Many ISPs are switching to open sources routers
When one compare Open source router to CISCO it cost just 10%.
We personally tested and running open source router at few locations
successfully with 100 % uptime ? Again this for cost cutting

When we compare the server, switches, routers its one time cost i.e.
capital and cost is very less then IP address resources.

For cost cutting and knowledge source International companies came India
and open Call Center / Back Office Operation / development Center.

If part of operations of APNIC came to India every one will get benefit
specially Indian Internet Community.

You are right the Indian content is still out side.
We all are trying to develop more data centers. This is a process it will
take time.

My non English speaking staff tries to Contact APNIC Helpdesk many time He
never get any Indian language supporting staff on help desk.

Nixi already doing training sessions free of cost to ISPs in India. And on
request they arrange special sessions as per there technical capacity.

If a trainer came from out side India it will cost high when we compare it
with Local Indian trainer.

I personally attended a session with APNIC trainer there is accent problem
in there English. Half of class not able not understand what trainer is
speaking. Thank God OHP slides are there to visualize the subjected

In the training session we ask questions to the trainer and the trainer
not able to answer the subjected question just say ?the question will be
covered in next training session? the next session never came. The trainer
fly to there home town.
Accountability always required in every process.

I never say all the trainers are like that, The question is ACCESS TO THE

Every industry is having different business model as per there regional

I think NIXI as NIR should be taken as positive approach to words
development of Internet in INDIA.

we can have telephonic discussion on this topic. Give me your phone number
I will call as per Indian time between 10 am to 6 pm.


G P Singh

> Some questions, just to help with clarification and understanding...
> [email protected] said the following on 20/11/09 20:02 :
>> In our country only 6 â?? 7 % of people can speak English, All of them
>> are
>> not 100% fluent in English. The people are more comfortable in the
>> regional language.
> Is the intention for NIXI to provide language translation services?
>> Many ISPâ??s still not having there own IP resources. They hardly get 32
>> IPs
>> from there upstream Internet Service Provider for allocating to there
>> proxy servers and they run there network on Private IPs by keeping there
>> logs of the server.
> Why can these ISPs not get more than a /27 worth of *address* *space*
> (not IP, whatever that is) from their upstream? I assume these upstreams
> are also Indian ISPs.
> And how will an NIR help with this problem?
> It sounds more as though the problems many Indian ISPs are having is
> being caused by the business practices of their upstreams.
> If these ISPs went to APNIC instead, they'd get the address space they
> need. So apart from a perceived language barrier, why are they not doing
> this?
>> The main reason for not taking IP resources are
>> 1.   Cost constraint
> I find this quite amazing given that ISPs have to buy servers, switches,
> routers, pay huge costs for domestic bandwidth, and even more for
> international as so much Indian content is *still* sitting overseas. The
> cost of obtaining address space is totally trivial in comparison. Or are
> there special Indian prices for all the other infrastructure?
>> 2.   Language Barrier
> I believe APNIC have several staff of Indian origin fluent in the
> national languages.
>> 3.   Communication gap
> Can you explain what this means?
>> The cost will come down as the allocation will be done locally. The cost
>> of operation in India is less.
> I think you misunderstand how an NIR functions. Allocations are still
> made by APNIC. An NIR does much of the initial contact and evaluation
> work, and adheres completely to the RIR policies.
>> The trainers of Local Region will be more accessible / accountable.
> Will NIXI be offering training services also? How will these be paid for?
> AFAIK, APNIC's training team spends a large amount of time in India.
> Never mind SANOG doing a large number of workshops twice a year in the
> region. I agree that more training is beneficial, but someone has to pay.
> I hope that answers to these questions will help clarify the NIR
> proposal for everyone here.
> Thanks!
> philip
> --
>> Regards
>> G P Singh
>> Manager â?? Operations
>> Geo City Network Solutions Pvt. Ltd.
>> 118, Somdutt Chambers - II,
>> 9, Bhikaji Cama Place
>> New Delhi - 110066, India
>> Ph.: 91 11 41625188, 91 11 41625189
>> www.geocitysolutions.co.in
>> _______________________________________________
>> apnic-talk mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk

G P Singh (+91 9818213185)
Manager - Operations
Geocity Network Solutions Pvt Ltd
118, Somdutt Chambers - II,
9, Bhikaji Cama Place, New Delhi 110066
Phone : 91 11 41625188, 91 11 41625189

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