1. I understood your concern. I know it's an International forum in which I
shouldn't have expressed the regional strategies of Cisco.:-)
Every vendor has their own India strategy (indianizing). For an example, Mobile
equipment manufacturers "invented" the service model per connection in India.
Airtel initiated this model in the name of outsourcing. Every other guys
followed, in fact took this outside India too. Now, none of the mobile
operators buy their Mobile network equipments, they just go for a revenue share
with the manufacturers who is responsible to import, install, maintain etc.
Thus the capital investment required to buy these high value equipments are not
needed anymore. Hence forth cost implication over the charge per minute is
altered. The benefit is transferred to common man - less than 1 US cent per
minute. I can pick up many more examples, but those may not be contextual
2. Yes, your suggestion is implemented at different stages, the surplus are
used to reduce the price. The price of Interconnection to exchange is reduced
drastically, the prices of domains are reduced to the levels of 70+%.
3. Exactly you are right, Internet abhors single point failure - Lets create
NIRs so that there is no single point of failure, at APNIC:-)
4. Control: For example, many of the ISPs still mention their central office as
the address of entire pool of IPs. So when you look for who is, location within
India cannot be traced. Even with traceroute applications like visualroute the
IP will terminate at a wrong location - Security issue.
Another example, underutilisation. Since the same authority gets report on
actual subscriber base etc of the ISPs, as ISPs are licensed operators in
India, better distribution of resource based on subscriber base could be done.
5. The requirements/applications of the old world (Communication, transactions,
commerce etc.,) are fulfilled better by using new technologies. There is no
change in requirement, it all remains same. The old world remains there as is.
We all want to talk, use old phone or new phone it's all about comfort.
Briefly about an Indian way of old/new world - In many part of the Indian
societies, even today many will suggest to go around few temples and pray when
a woman is not getting pregnant. People misunderstand that it is about god and
even make jokes. In reality if you do a research (which I have done along with
few other similar interested people), the pillars, walls, beams, ceilings
around these temples are made with lots of sculptures of different sexual
depictions like in kamasutra. The idea is to make people learn about these when
there were no technology or even paper to talk teach about these. That was used
as a training material. Even today application remains the same. Today the
technology made the "onwall" education into "online" education. At the
end of the day old world remains there intact.
6. I agree, Internet grew because of International cooperation. Formation of
individual networks, and their connect to Internet were never denied. Thus
making the world's only borderless world. However Internet is successful
primarily because of letting it to be built in the manner what everyone wanted
to build. It's an open world, everyone has their say/voice. There is no
controlling body, but only managing bodies. All members of this ecosystem
should have their representation and say. Otherwise it cannot be termed as
cooperation. Make the NIR to have our representation and say.
7. I agree, Organisations managing ccTLDs were doing even before ICANN
formation. But ARPANET, let the regional authorities to manage If I understand
rightly, it was way back in 1984, when DNS system was standardised. It was
8. What NIR actually meant to do, from an Indian context? Instead of giving a
direct answer, I can say if we understand the ground reality and if we are able
to understand the human touch with technology the following (link) is what
someone could do... be it Indian or any one. We call these as innovations. Just
understand the ground reality when you make a
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzKmGTVmqJs&feature=related (See part 2 also)
I don't think it would have been possible to make such an invention for the
biggies of the world for just a cost of 350$. See the sequence, born in a small
town in Gujarat, understanding the ground reality of common man (physical life)
he invented something that the world says "wow", but he stands up to the world
and says everything will be part of opensource. That's because he knows the
common man better, especially of the developing and under developed countries.
Watch the video and see how many times he refers India. That's what the
technology can do, if the ground need is understood, more than 1.4 mA$.
APNIC might be doing already all that what NIR would do technically and
procedurally, but it can never do many that only foot on street can do. To an
analogy, in today's technological world, I don't see a need for Cisco opening
up an office in India. They could have done it from their headquarters and
distribution network. But the purpose is "Understand the ground reality (Pulse
of the people)" and make the strategy accordingly.
Hope now many would have understood the pulse of the people. We all might use
the virtual world for many purpose, but we live in the physical world. Its
important to consider the needs of this physical world.
From: Philip Smith [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 21 November 2009 03:08
To: Desi Valli
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] [Apnic-announce] Application for India NIR - Call for
Desi Valli said the following on 20/11/09 18:17 :
> Cisco goes even to the level of 85% discount from their
> GLP. Impossible to listen to those numbers in westerns countries.
Do you have any references for this?
Do other vendors do the same thing?
> _Regarding Cross funding between IX/NIR_
> NIXI is a NPO and it is mandated that the organisation cannot carry
> profits. That implies the fact that the surplus should be better
If there is a surplus, it suggests that NIXI is making too much money.
Why not reduce the prices instead, given that 'Indianisation' is so
> I disagree to the suggestion that things are to be separated. Internet
> is a field of convergence. No technology other than IP has enabled
> convergence in all possible areas thus improving productivity and
> optimal utilisation of resources & infrastructures. Suggesting to have
> independent operations, funding & resources of IX, registry and NIR,
> defeats many very purposes of Internet itself.
Internet also abhors single points of failure. ;-)
> _Regarding the benefits for the Indian Internet Eco-system_
> 1. Financial benefits.
> 2. Better control, hence better utilisation.
What will be controlled?
> 3. Better utilisation, hence better productivity.
> 4. Better productivity, hence better cost.
> 5. Thus creating a cyclic effort over the financial benefits.
> Over and above:
> 1. ITU lets individual countries to manage their numbering system
Do we want to replicate the "old world" telephony system management
processes for the Internet?
The Internet has grown by international cooperation. The RIRs manage the
distribution of address space. APNIC's existing NIRs participate in this
distribution process. The RIRs don't give /8s to each country and tell
them to get on with it.
> 2. ICANN lets individual countries to manage their ccTLDs.
Organisations responsible for managing ccTLDs have done so long before
ICANN existed. The process is not top down as I think you are implying.
> 3. Then what is illogical in NIR?
I worry that there is a misunderstanding in what I've read so far as to
what function an NIR is actually meant to perform.
Hopefully you can clarify. :-)
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